Soldering Layers and Forming Copper and Silver

[brad]

I am working on a cuff/bracelet, that is a 1/2"-ish strip of silver on a 1-1/2" formed (synclastic) copper cuff.  What I did to experiment, was formed the copper, then formed the narrower silver strip on the same form, then made sure the two layers fit well, then sweat soldered them together.  It worked ok, but because the two different metals heated differently there is some space between parts of the two layers.

So, my question is: how much bending can solder handle?  this working with layers of differing metals would be much easier, if I could do the soldering of the pieces of flat metals prior to the bending and forming required for a cuff.  So, can I solder the pieces together flat, then do all the bending and forming. And NOT have the solder break loose?

I look forward to your suggestions and comments.  Brad

[Irith-Rita]

Hi Brad,

It would be best if you could send a photograph of your work, so then I could be more helpful perhaps.

Meanwhile You need:

A piece of steel wool
Builder's iron thread
50% silver solder
40% silver solder
A bangle anvil

When you solder two metals together I would recommend that before soldering, you should first of all rub them both clean with steel wool. Place the metals one on top of the other, then tie them well together with builder's iron wire. If there is any space or dirt between the metals - they will not solder. Use the 50% solder for this purpose.

After you finish soldering, wait until the metals cool off and remove the iron wire. Then reheat the soldered strips and insert them in a small "bath" of pickeling solution. Leave the soldered pieces for about 30 minutes in the pickeling solution and then rinse them well with clear water. After you rinse off the pickle, check to see if the two pieces were soldered properly. If there are still small unsoldered gaps, try to tighten them together and then resolder.

Ony after you are sure everything is soldered, you can bend the metals on a bracelet anvil.

If you wish to have a round bangle - use the 40% solder to join the two ends together.

I hope this is what you meant and that it was of some help. Anyway This is how I do it.

[brad]

Thank you, for the comments. I think you addressed my primary concern regarding, can I solder the two metal layers together first, then form on my forming stakes or anvils etc. I was worried that the soldering would not hold up to extreme bending and forming. I do think I need to be concerned with: getting the piece fully formed without any annealing steps? I do need to look up what builder's iron thread is. I get it though, needing a product to hold pieces in place while soldering. Again, Thank you, brad I meant to take a pic last night but forgot. (something I do frequently anymore-forgetting!)

[Irith-Rita]

By what I called "builder's wire" I meant "Steel wire". I use it a lot to hold two pieces of metal together before soldering.

If you go to a hardware store you are sure to find some there. It should be only around 1 millimeter thick and easy winding steel. It is not supposed to be too costly.

[brad]

[Irith-Rita]

Very nice. You seem to get along without the help of others. Next time I will know better in your case

[brad]

I seemed to have dropped a post from earlier, likely forgot to click the post reply tab. arrgghhh
I was thinking about your wire to hold a certain solderings in place. I see the wire as a helpful tool where clamping is difficult. So, this thin steel wire will not melt during the soldering process? Even when using medium to hard solder? Thanks, Brad

[caeterle]

Brad, is this maybe the post you are missing (because it relates to this bracelet)?
jewelryartisans.proboards.com/thread/7889/silver-copper-cuff?page=1&scrollTo=82457

It looks beautiful!

[Irith-Rita]

Sept 30, 2022 8:55:37 GMT -6 brad said:

I seemed to have dropped a post from earlier, likely forgot to click the post reply tab. arrgghhh
I was thinking about your wire to hold a certain solderings in place. I see the wire as a helpful tool where clamping is difficult. So, this thin steel wire will not melt during the soldering process? Even when using medium to hard solder? Thanks, Brad

The idea is not my own. This is something I was taught along the way and many jewelry makers use it. So it will not melt. The reason it won't is because " the melting point of iron alloys and the melting point of steel, occur at higher temperatures, around 2,200-2,500 Fahrenheit (°F) / 1,205-1,370 Celsius (°C). Melting points of copper alloys (including bronzes, pure copper, and brass) are lower than iron, at ranges around 1,675-1,981°F / 913-1,082°C. " and the melting pont of silver is - 961.8 °C.